June 3, 2007
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Maturity, is it a good thing?
This is one of Socrates_Cafe's current questions for discussion.
The word "Maturity" is often used to describe a person as adult, thoughtful, and composed; but it doesn't really mean this. Its true meaning is to "Be complete of natural growth or development" or to be "Finished" or "Fully developed" - which is not necessarily a desirable state for a human in my mind.Maturity is, after all pretty much a dead end - any further and you're "over-ripe". I especially don't like the idea that being mature means you have completed your growth - spiritual, intellectual or social. Sometimes acting mature is another way of expressing the idea of repressing feelings, which can sometimes have bad consequences. I think humans should continue to grow for their entire lives. Your job, or your family, or your life, should never be the same over time; the person who has the same job for twenty years should not have the same job for one year repeated twenty times.
Perhaps true intellectual maturity among humans should include the idea that there is a horizon of fresh ideas and experiences that you have not reached always before you. I think it's a good idea to think that the future always holds experiences that you will not experience, that the world will continue and that new wonders always await.
Of course, that includes the idea that progress and "progressing" are good things and that said progress will mostly be in a positive direction. Do you think this is true?
How can we bring ourselves to feel secure and positive if we have the attitude that we live in an ever-changing universe with no solid foundation and no dependable way to "Go home again"?
Comments (22)
I agree with you that maturity is not and should not be a destination, because after that the next step would be stagnation. However, can you think of some attributes that you identify with a "mature" person?
A good commentary on maturity. One attribute of a mature person, I would think, is their ability to be open to new ideas and to adapt to the changing world. Maybe I can come up with something on my own - we'll just have to see. Peace.
I think, that it is entirely too early in the morning for me to think this deeply. I shall return later with some logical commentary (or at least an attempt at it
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Agreed.
I think maturity or being, "mature" is when you reach the point that you realize that what you want and what society or those around you want you to want might be different - and you are ok with that. That you are able to make your own choices, have reasons for those choices that are important to you - and yet be willing to be flexible in the future if new information presents itself. That's just my two cents
Re your comment:
I would think it would either be here or not by this point, don't you think? I've know him for - gosh - nearly a year now. I haven't seen him for a couple months - but the last time I was around him I just didn't feel any draw.
I wish we could choose who we were attracted to.
It would make life so much easier....
I think an attribute of maturity is being secure in who you are - self-acceptance - both psychological and physical.
Is the continual drive for self Improvement part of immaturity or should we all always strive to Better ourselves and be dissatisfied with who we are?
I think one clue here is in the use of the word better. Continuing to learn and enjoy new ideas, friends, and places should be a life-long occupation, but I think the idea that you can and should strive to match up to some socially imposed ideal is right up there with the idea that you should "Suffer a little, it's good for you".
IMHO that's one of mankind's dumber aphorisms.
Well as promised, I returned. I have to say that I generally agree with your position on this. Can we define the point at which a human reaches completion? Is it at death? A specified age? A certain realization? That is an angle that I find myself wondering about as I read your post and your definition at the beginning.
Hmmm. Sages and philosophers have argued this for millennia.
Buddha said when we attained "Enlightenment" - sort of a takeoff on the Hindu idea that we had to work our way through life after life until we rid ourselves of all that bad karma.
Jews, Christians, and Muslims generally believe it's at the "Last Judgment" or at/after death anyhow.
Spiritualists and some other sects talk about transmigration to a "higher power or place"
Right now I'm holding in my hand a {wa or u} shabti figure buried with an egyptian about 3000 years ago. He believed that as long as any of the several such figures buried with him existed, his soul would have a place to go and would still exist. Does that ancient soul still have a place? I think I'll take good care of it for a while, anyhow.
My present position, as one more or less boning up for the finals, is that there should never be a completion. That you are in part the memories others have of you and that as long as some recognition or remembrance of you exists, so do you.
Do you think that striving to become better necessarily means that we are dissatisfied with ourselves? Does striving to better oneself necessarily mean trying to match a socially imposed ideal? Isn't it possible to set our own goals independent of social expectations? Isn't that what a mature person does?
I tend to like the idea of reincarnation, although I am not sure that I believe in it (or that I don't) because I like the idea that we keep coming back until we have learned what we are supposed to learn. Isn't learning one of the purpposes of life?
Nance, as usual, you have pulled a profundity out of one of my crabby mutterings.
Is learning a primary purpose of our lives?
I think so, and I think the most joyful of us are those who realize this and who revel in the opportunity (and the results).
Oops! 2 p's in purposes, I see. I have trouble reading the textbox. I can't weat my bifocals to work at the computer.
Thanks for the lovely compliment. Which do you think is greater as we mature, change or consistency? In other words, at 60, are we more like or more different from the people we were at 20?
Our maturity might be defined by the way we engage with new experiences and ideas. If you say that maturity is a dead end and we follow your logic what is the implication to how we view maturity?
Nance, regrettably, we are sadder and wiser at 60 then we were at 20, at least I was. On the other hand, I never really felt I was 60, indeed I never felt I was 70.
Now, however.....
Zeal, you are certainly right - thats a good definition of the process of maturing. Maturing is a good thing, but I think this is a case of "the journey is the goal"
"To exist is to change, to change is to mature, to mature is to go on creating oneself endlessly." - Henri-Louis Bergson
Yes, I am zeroing in on 60 and I really do not feel any different than I did at 20. My 36 year old daughter tends to remind me that I am not 20 anymore, though. I ran into her in the ladies room at work one day and she was complaining about how old she was. I pointed out to her that I have absolutely no sympathy for her on that point because no matter how old she is, I am still old enough to be her mother!
Do you think that a person with a young mind ages better?
I have some empirical evidence that the younger you see yourself, the younger you feel - and what happens when that feeling young attitude is lost.
My wife and I bought a place in southern Indiana when we were in our early 60's. Twelve acres - mostly woods on a ridge, with streams running down two sides into a large lake about half a mile away. My wife, who really liked hard garden/woods work laid out and she and I cut about two miles of paths around the hillsides and through the woods. at the same time she cleared underbrush from most of the woods and we cleaned up the field - I ran the power stuff - tractor, chippers, mowers, chain-saw,etc while she did the fine detailed work. We built four walking bridges (averaging 8-12 feet) over rills and streams and I built and installed several benches. We later bought five more acres, mostly fields, which we had to clear and mow.
Sounds like a lot of work, doesn't it? She much enjoyed the countless hours she spent grubbing, digging, and chopping right up until she was 75. That year (2001) when she was diagnosed with atrial fibrillation, given a medicine she was violently allergic to, had a whole system collapse which took about a year to cure and was left with a very severe general anxiety disorder with repeated panic attacks. The medicine necessary to control this pretty completely destroyed her joyful attitude and feeling that she was younger than her years. We had to give up the IN place as it was simply too isolated and too much work - work which we really should not do (I've got some medical problems also). We have moved back to FL and she has struggled to regain her life. Unfortunately her condition has led to multiple falls with many broken bones including a severe head injury leading to permanent brain damage. she has had to literally learn to walk again and has done a remarkable job of working her way back, but she often laments the loss of the joy of life she once had. Still, at 81, her attitude is quite remarkable as she has by no means given up on life. Evidence: We are planning on our annual drive to Maine for the next three months. We will live in a lakeside cabin we've had since 1970. thank God it now has lights, running water and indoor plumbing. We did not have these amenities before 1982.
My point in this rather grim tale is that Carpe Deum is a pretty good motto.
Yes, my husband and I have always lived with the philosophy that says that you should not put off the things you want to do if you can possibly figure out how to do them. We have always traveled a lot. People frequently ask us how we can afford it. I tell them that we do not buy toys. We have never had fancy cars and until about 5 years ago, our stereo still had an 8-track player. We would probably still have that stereo, but it quit working. It's amazing what you can do if you don't smoke, don't drink much, and don't buy toys! None of us know how long we are going to be here though, so it's important to think about how you use your time!
You are a stupid head.
Still think maturity is bad?
Pilgrim's point is well taken _ that is: immaturity can be more of a problem than maturity and with certain degrees of immaturity, the idea of growth or reason is rejected or not even recognized. "You are a stupid head" is the remark a very small child just learning language but without the maturity to express thought rationally might use. If you closely watch the child over an extended time period, you will be amazed at how fast he learns, his joy at grasping new concepts, and how much his vocbulary broadens . The eary years are those when we mature most rapidly and are eager to continue the process. Along about age 11 or12, this intellectual growth spurt slows (Much to the dismay of middle school teachers and parents).
Some of us are able to recapture the joy of learning or continue it throughout our lives. Maturity is after all, a relative prcess.
Hey! How about that for making a smart-ass comment into a long-winded, pedantic discourse
Smart ass comment?
I know you are but what am I?
The world needs more smart-asses and fewer pedants.
We never fully mature, because we are constantly in a state of learning. As we grow older, we tend to learn a little more slowly, but we still learn.
Good post.