July 24, 2006
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Is Becoming Great at something worth the sacrifices you must make? - A Socrates Cafe Topic
One of this week's topics concerns the sacrifices necessary for "Greatness". I have a pretty short answer: In a word, NO.
The question presupposes that effort must be accompanied by sacrifice - that is giving up something you really really want so that you can accomplish your goal - but this suggests that you don't really want your goal- or at least aren't totally committed.
Either you are being pushed or driven to accomplish "Greatness" or you have decided this is what you want, have presumably "measured the pleasure" and have set out to become "Great" at something.
Depending on the degree of competence you identify as "great" you may spend a good deal of effort striving with few results and much frustration, or find there is no sacrifice or problem for you at all.
I suggest all really great accomplishments are the result of a combination of talent and desire and most achievers of "Greatness" would be somewhat surprised at this question. Perhaps some really great people have decided it really wasn't worth it in retrospect, but I think that's pretty rare.
Many people strive for "greatness" - think politicians here- when they have neither the talent nor a clue as to what greatness really is. IMHO, "Greatness" is an accolade given by your peers and history. what you should strive for is competence - not labels.
Comments (20)
Interesting that we took definitely different sides. Why can't someone have competing desires, perhaps one for ease and one for some form of effort-requiring greatness?
I think Eddie and I differ mostly in the area of "Sacrifice". My point, admittedly muddled, is that striving for true competence probably wouldn't be considered a sacrifice if you really are motivated. The old trite idea "Measure the Pleasure" works well here.
Isn't it a fact that we reach certain levels, no matter what stage of life we are in and yet to get to the next level we have to let go - sacrifice what has already been achieved to reach higher?
Tychecat, I think I have to disagree with you on the point of sacrifice. Even if you are really motivated, giving up some things is rough, no matter how great the competence you acheive is in comparison. Just because the "greatness" is worth it doesn't necessarily mean there won't be an opportunity cost, although you probably won't regret paying it.
When you say "totally commited" (to a goal), what do you mean by that? Why does commitment preclude sacrifice?
I agree with you in a sense - I think to achieve greatness even if that greatness is in an area that you're passionate about there will always be something that is sacrificed. Because in a sense doesn't greatness imply imbalance? You have to spend so much time at one thing to achieve that measure of success or competence that you have to give up a lot in another area of your life - which is no small matter.
Uhm... greatness...
What do you mean by that?
Fame? Money? Success? I can hardly find some morally positive definition by that.
Let's make an example...
I used to play some rithm'n'blues in a band. We used to work hard and there was a period when we had some success in our area. The "sacrifice" was the hard work to study and prepare the concerts. But i would have done it without any success, any money, any fame, because my goal was not anything else than art, communication, sharing emotions. Is that the greatness?
The word greatness reminds me a relative concept (something compared to something else), so reaching the greatness means competition?
Where is the good thing in competition?
Thanks for the Chris info I will look at it all tonight. I will put you on my protected list so if you ever wish to read you may.:)
You'll all note that I am quibbling here: I'm with Dario, I really don't know what is meant by the "greatness" idea so I sort of changed it to competence in whatever you choose as your life's work.
Very few of us are really "Great" in our life's accomplishments. I always wondered how Peter II and Catherine of Russia got their "greats" as well as Fredrick II of Prussia. Have you ever thought how few politicians ever get that term applied to them?
I believe that the idea of "Sacrifice" is a concept used after the fact by people who have decided that whatever they strived to do turned out to be wasted effort. At the time, you make the choice, "Measure the Pleasure", and do your thing. If you have the idea that you are sacrificing something to achieve your goal, you probably shouldn't.
Should you strive to be your best? Certainly - but you should enjoy the ride.
Greatness can mean anything you want in this question. You can be great in the sense of compitents, in the sense of character, in the sense of being politically astute, anything! But regardless of what you see greatness as being, a price has to be paid. To be a great mom, I might have to give up a dream of going to law school. That could hurt me a lot, both emotionally and finalcially. Choosing between two or more "wants" does not mean that no sacrifice is made. On the contrary, any time I give up one thing for the sake of another, I am sacrificing the thing that I give up.
I hate to put links to my site in others' discussions, but actually my entry was born as a comment to this debate, so... here is mine.
RYC on my xanga
RYC on my xanga again = )
RYC on my xanga!
Thank you very much, all advice is greatly appreciated. Yes I looked at Chris' sites he is quite busy these days. What is the walker stuff? Was Ashleys name really Walker? Do you know anything about her? I hope she is still not with that Robert guy that was not good news. Has Chris found the woman for him yet? Nosey ha?
I am just curious it was kind of strange knowing so much about them then just nothing. I always just want to know eveyone is doing good.
I agree with you. I hope things change for the better soon = )
That's so funny I just don't see "Ashley" as a Helen.:)
We had the cats and rats at the same time, we have one cat that was interested in the rats he went up to the cage put his face up there. The oldest rat who was protective of the others went up and used his nose to open the door and he chomped down on the cats nose and our cat ran making a screaming noise and he never went near them again. I shouldn't say this but it was one of the funnyest things I have seen. The rats died a long time ago but we still have the cat he is 16 and his name is Macho. Funny ha?
They had been talking about starting a family site for quite a while. I know one thing "lexi" is a very strong woman they both have been through alot. I keep thinking about joining again but the last time I went they still were not taking visa.Thanks for answering my cat question.:)
RYC: I agree that the question from Socrates Cafe was more likely about "impulsive action vs over-analysis and indecision". And faced with those two options, I'd choose the latter - you'll make less decisions, but they'll hopefully be correct more frequently. The reason I approached the question the way I did (by exaggerating to total inaction or lack of thought) is that "false choice" fallacies are almost impossible to actually answer.
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